NewsInbox: Should No. 17 be retired?
Beat reporter Marty Noble answers Mets fans' questions
By Marty Noble / MLB.com
11/25/09 1:53 PM EST
Now that the Mets have re-signed Keith Hernandez to stay with SNY, they should take the next step and retire his number. No matter who wears No. 17, there's only one No. 17 in club history.No question Tom Seaver deserved to have his No. 41 retired. But the Mets have been around for 48 seasons and they've won two World Series and four pennants, and they have just one player worthy of having his uniform number taken out of circulation?
It should be either Hernandez or Mike Piazza or both. I really think, other than Seaver, Hernandez has been the most important player in the history of the franchise. Everything started to change in 1983 when he was traded to the Mets. His former teammates say so. I heard Mookie Wilson say it once that Hernandez was the energy behind the real good Mets teams from 1984-88.
Marty, I know I've read your support for him, and I remember what you said that Tim McCarver said he never saw a player do more to help his team win than Hernandez. So what are the Mets waiting for? I'm happy they've reformed the Hall of Fame committee. I know Hernandez already has been inducted. But so have other players who weren't close to being as important to the Mets as he was, like Tommie Agee and even Gary Carter. Hernandez spent more time with the Mets (6 1/2 years) than either of them.
Take No. 17 away from the Dae-Sung Koos and Luis Lopezes and give it to Hernandez forever. He deserves it.
-- Manny F., New Rochelle, N.Y.
You don't have to convince me, and the original Mets No. 17, Don Zimmer, wouldn't mind. And by the way, Hernandez's new contract with SNY is for three years through 2012.
How could you include John Franco in your list of closers? He drove us crazy when he was the Mets' closer. We had to sweat out every game. I was so happy when they brought in Armando Benitez.
-- Carey M., Bronx, N.Y.
I'd have Franco as my closer 10 times before I'd take Benitez once. I always thought Benitez was a bully. When a team stood up to him, he melted. See Paul O'Neill, Game 1, 2000 World Series. Franco didn't have the tools Benitez had, but he had the heart.
The list of closers you posted the other day reminded me of the list of center fielders you posted a few weeks ago. How could you leave off Jim Edmonds? He made more great plays than half the guys you listed. Ken Berry? Who? Paul Blair? Edmonds ran down everything.
-- Ken D., San Clemente, Calif.
I believe you're mistaken. Edmonds often ran, slowed down and dived. He played defense for SportsCenter, not the Angels and Cardinals. Earl Weaver used to say Blair couldn't make a great catch because if the ball was in the park, Blair would be waiting for it. The same with Berry and most of the players I mentioned. Willie Mays may have added some drama to some of his plays, but he made others that only a few center fielders -- Blair, Andruw Jones, Torii Hunter and Berry -- could. I'm quite sure Edmonds didn't belong with those guys.
Even though I'm a diehard Phillies fan, I always read your comments because of your brutal honesty, which I don't see too often. I appreciated your comments on Brad Lidge on ranking closers. In past years, his perfect season would have earned him an MVP (Willie Hernandez, Jim Konstanty) or at least a Cy Young Award (Steve Bedrosian). Yet baseball writers now seem to vote for 15-victory starters before closers. As someone who voted on these awards before, do you think there should be an award on the level of an MVP or a Cy Young for closers?
-- Mike D., Philadelphia
No. If a Rollie Fingers Award or, better yet, a Mariano Rivera Award was created, what would come next, a Johnny Bench Award for catchers or a Honus Wagner Award for shortstops? Let the closers compete for the MVP and Cy Young Awards. Moreover, Rolaids already recognizes the Fireman of the Year.
To me, the value of a closer is difficult to assess. The save is the primary measurement of closers' performance. I consider the save an imprecise and flawed statistic. I prefer saves be weighted based on degree of difficulty. A three-out save against the 2009 Nationals is not quite as demanding as a three-out save against the Yankees in the Bronx.
A strange dichotomy exists in the world of closers. The role of closer is quite challenging. A pitcher with some chutzpah and at least one outstanding pitch is necessary. But so many saves are relatively easy to achieve.
When the Tigers lost 106 games in 2002, Juan Acevedo saved 28 for them. Does anyone really believe more than 10 of the saves were comparable to the saves Rivera earned against the Angels or Red Sox in '09?
|
Have a question about the Mets?
 E-mail your query to MLB.com Mets beat reporter Marty Noble for possible inclusion in a future Inbox column. Letters may be edited for brevity, length and/or content.
|
||||||||
If a pitcher can rack up 28 saves, a decent total for a team that wins 56 games, I think we ought to begin each season with every pitcher designated as his team's closer credited with 28 and go from there.
For a closer to win a Cy Young Award, he must have an extraordinary season and there must no compelling candidates among starters. For any pitcher to win an MVP Award, there must be no compelling candidate among position players, and the pitcher must have a season similar to Lidge's 2008, Bob Gibson in 1968, Ron Guidry in '78, Dwight Gooden in '85, Dennis Eckersley in '92, Greg Maddux in '95 or Randy Johnson in '02.
Because the instructions to MVP voters say they should consider the numbers of games the players participate in, I believe a closer has a better chance of gaining support for MVP than for Cy Young.
I saw your list of closers. Would you do the same for catchers, please?
-- Tony D., St. Paul, Minn.
No list. Just one -- Johnny Bench. To me, he was incomparable. Give Joe Mauer a few more years and first let him catch up with Yogi Berra.
And I didn't forget Francisco Rodriguez in my list of closers. I was asked for 15. I listed 15. See above for the response to the e-mail sent by Mike D. of Philadelphia.
* * *
To those who consistently say the Mets do things on the cheap, think again. Their payroll for 2009 was the highest in the National League. Moreover, they have committed themselves to $470 million in salary for Pedro Martinez, Moises Alou, Billy Wagner, Oliver Perez and Carlos Beltran as free agents and traded for Carlos Delgado and Luis Castillo -- all since the end of the '04 season.
Perhaps some of the money wasn't spent as wisely as it might have been -- Perez and Castillo -- but they haven't been cheap.
It seems now that so many folks seem to believe that anything less than signing John Lackey and either Matt Holliday or Jason Bay is wrong or somehow unfair to the fans, think again.
Lackey has had one stellar season, 2007, in the big leagues, and he's 31. Because he is the best free-agent pitcher available doesn't make him a better pitcher than he is. The Mets -- and, for that matter, no team without a legitimate chance of winning next season -- should pay top dollar for him. I don't see him transforming an also-ran into a favorite by himself.
Signing Bay or Holliday in the optimum circumstances -- that is when all a team needs to be a legitimate contender or a favorite is right-handed-hitting outfielder with power -- makes sense.
I don't see the Mets as being that close that either a slugger or Lackey would push them past the Phillies. And the expense of two players would prohibit the club from making other subsequent moves that might better address specific team needs.
I see no free-agent acquisition that would serve the Mets as well as their trading for Johan Santana or signing Rodriguez. Just because Lackey is the best pitcher available doesn't make him the perfect fit. If that buy-the-best philosophy regardless of need and price were implemented in our lives, we'd all be driving Lexuses or Mercedes.
At least some part of owning and operating a baseball team is a business, and business decisions have to be made. A year ago, the Mets established what they considered appropriate contract terms for the players they believed would help them. They signed Rodriguez and passed on Derek Lowe when his price exceeded their figure.
That seems to be an intelligent way to do business. You don't buy a house because it's the most expensive or the best in the area.
* * *
Now -- and this is last time I will address this silly notion about my supposed baseball allegiance -- I was (past tense) a Yankees fan when I was young. I attended more than 200 games at the old Stadium, reveled in the Yankees' successes and worshiped Mickey Mantle. That I came to know Mantle fairly well in his final seven years was a joy. However ...
I also rooted for the New York Rangers when I was 9 years old. And I probably haven't watched one power play in the past 50 years. Do I still qualify as a Rangers fan? I also liked the Reds, mostly because of Vada Pinson. Am I still a Reds fan?
Once again, you can't do this job and be a fan of anything more specific than the game itself. I appreciate the game more than ever because I know more about it.
I prefer 3-2 scores to 10-9, prefer a strong throw from right field to third base than a three-home run game by the same player and wonder where the game is headed with so few players able to think it as the Tim McCarvers, Ted Simmonses, Joe Torres, Keith Hernandezes did, and too few players demonstrate respect for the game.
Now, someone please remove the soapbox.
Marty Noble is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.
